Rudy Giuliani said Friday that House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., has "completely trashed the Constitution" in overseeing the impeachment investigation of President Donald Trump.
"Basically, Schiff has completely trashed the Constitution: no right of counsel, no right of cross-examination, no right to call witnesses," Giuliani, 75, the president's personal attorney, said on the "War Room: Impeachment" podcast.
The podcast is co-hosted by former Trump chief strategist Steve Bannon and ex-communications director Jason Miller. The broadcast started last month and airs on six conservative talk-radio stations in Florida and Virginia.
"If a whistleblower can be anonymous, then you would have to amend the Constitution, because you can't be convicted without being faced by your accusers," said Giuliani, the former New York City mayor and federal prosecutor.
"You can't be convicted by anonymous accusers anyplace but in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. It's almost ridiculous to contemplate.
"After all, the guy could be lying," Giuliani said. "Just because you're a whistleblower doesn't mean you're a saint.
"There are good whistleblowers, and there are bad whistleblowers," he continued. "There are good informants and there are bad informants.
That's why we have a trial," Giuliani said. "That's why we have cross-examination.
"It's in the Sixth Amendment of the United States Constitution.
"From their point of view, he's unpopular — but, dammit, he's entitled to a defense, or we're not America," he said.
Schiff, 59, who was first elected to the House in 2000, said Wednesday that public impeachment hearings would begin next week, though President Trump said Friday that he did not believe the sessions should be open.
"This is just like the Russian witch hunt," the president told reporters Friday, referring to the Mueller probe. "This is just a continuation."
Giuliani told Bannon and Miller that if he could question anyone during the hearings, he would choose Schiff.
"I think he plotted the whole thing," Giuliani said. "I think the only crime here is the way they put this together."
That hinges on a sober reading of the summary of the President Trump's July 25 telephone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, which the White House released in September.
"If you take all of the emotion out and the media-spinning — and you read that transcript, there's nothing wrong with that at all.
"In fact, you could argue that the president had the obligation to ask him to investigate this corruption," he added, citing Article II, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution.
"He has to take care that the laws are faithfully executed," the former mayor said.
Giuliani also noted the 2017 tweets of Mark Zaid, one of the attorneys representing the whistleblower, including one posted 10 days after Trump took office, on Jan. 30: "Coup has started. First of many steps. Rebellion. Impeachment will follow ultimately."
Though Zaid told Fox News Thursday, in part, that the tweets, referred to a "completely lawful process of what President Trump would likely face as a result of stepping over the line," Giuliani said the posts were another effort to end Trump's presidency.
"It's nothing more than another iteration of their … plan to remove him on anything they can make stick," he told the podcast. "Russian collusion didn't stick. Obstruction didn’t stick.
"Now, this one actually fell apart."
Giuliani again pointed to the Trump summary.
"The president, in a bold move, puts out the transcript. Read the transcript. It doesn't say anything about military aid.
"There's no threat. It's a request. Biden's mentioned for four lines out of a thousand.
Zelenskiy, the only guy who really would count, in terms of pressure, says, 'I wasn't pressured,'" Giuliani said. "He actually laughed."
The Ukrainian president told reporters at the White House in September that Trump did not pressure him to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter.
Giuliani admitted to Bannon and Miller on Friday that "we are engaged in combat" with congressional Democrats.
"Even if they don't impeach him, they're hoping that — somehow — it'll take his numbers down, and maybe they can beat him."
However, "this is going to be decided by the American people," he added. "If we're pretty close to even on impeachment, they're not going to impeach him.
"The jury has always been the American people, because we know that Congress follows public opinion.
"If public opinion is widely in favor of impeachment, like it was for [Richard] Nixon and like it wasn't for [Bill] Clinton, that's going to decide it," Giuliani said.
"And if it's even, it's too risky."
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